Thursday, June 29, 2006

It's not Terrorism when the Tanks are American

Makes you all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it? Knowing that the sweet and innocent Israel can defend itself against the military might of the Evil Arabs in the Gaza strip.

Because the only reason they are in there of course is because the Prime Minister cares so much about the poor sweet and innocent boy who got kidnapped by parties unknown. Of course the government of Palestine know exactly where he is, so it's perfectly OK to start imprisoning elected officials. I mean, Hamas weren't meant to win anyway, the people didn't really mean to vote them in so Israel ios doing them a favour.

And it's not like the Israeli Primeminister has been rattling his sabre since he got into office or anything. Suggestions that he was just looking for an excuse to expand the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory or just crazy. He was a man of peace, you know. Just like his cuddly predecessor. Only this guy makes Sharon look like a moderate.

These brave fighting men have nothing but the latest advances in American Military hardware standing between them and the vicious terrorists they seek to destroy. All they want to do is promote democracy, as long as you elect the right people.

Personally I pray for the day when people stop whining about 'Israel engages in nothing mroe than US Sanctioned terrorism'. 'Israel has more UN Resolutions passed against it than any other country in the world combined'. Bush says it's OK! Attacking hostile occupying forces is terrorism if you're an Arab, it's as simple as that!


lunaliar said...

I don't mean to sound like an ugly American, but does that mean that it's okay to kidnap Israelis and then threaten to fire missles into another sovereign country, or do you perceive Israel as sovereign at all? I agree that Israel stepped over the line on this one. They should not have knocked out the water and electricity, and they went overboard with so many tanks, but there are only so many missiles launched across borders before someone goes off the deep end.

I think that it's all crazy, and that they're arguing over a bit of land that's half the size of Rhode Island, but both governments deserve sovereignty, and Olmert, who said he was going to forge a new era in a peaceful coalition that Sharon birthed, has become a worse hawk than President Bush. Two lives, in my opinion, are the scapegoats for the massive invasion and capture of the Hamas-led Palestinian government. The question is, when they're done bargaining after all this, can there ever be trust or peace?

MattJ said...

You're far from an ugly American and I don't meant o come off like I don't recognise the sovereignty. I think denying the sovereignty of Israel is utterly pointless, as it's clearly a Socereign nation. The whole situation in the middle east has been pretty much caused by the hamfisted way the UK and the US hacked the new country out of that bit of the middle east and disposessed the people who already lived there.

Sadly this isn't the first time Israel has 'stepped over the line'. A few years ago they drove tanks into Bethlehem square 'chasing 2 suspected terrorists' (In Tanks?!!!) and proceeded to blow up the houses in the area because they were 'booby trapped'. Clearly the surgeon and his young family residing in one of the houses was a dire threat. It had nothing to do with demoralising the residents due to the fact that the only real thijng a Palestinian can legally own in that area is a house of course.

I'm not excusing whatever some Palestinians have done to that soldier - but as yet there is no evidence of State involvment. It just pisses me off that there is such shock and horror when a single soldier, who is in a hostile army in occupied territory gets kidnapped or killed while absolutely nothing is said of the vast death rate of innocent palestinians. They are the ones who have suffered and occupation for the last 50 years or so remember.

1 solider is captured and now Israel has stormed in and captured 'terrorists' even though they are legally elected officials. Olmert has just been looking for an excuse to attack Palestine and now he has it.

Do I think there can be peace? You have a party with a history of violence on one side and someone who appears to model himself on an amplified version of a young Ariel Sharon. Withdraw the billions of dollars of military aid, allow the UN to enforce it's sanctions instead of VETO'ing them everytime and Israel may learn compromise. But you have Hamas on the other side who would take advantage of that maybe not so good an idea. I think the best opportunity for peace was with Yasser and Yitzhak Rabin, Sharon would never be trusted by Palestnians due to his past.

The problem is there is a lot of history of violence and cruelty on both sides and its been fuelled by successive US governenments and to a lesser extent UK ones. There's always opportunity for peace but I can't help but think the lunatics currently in charge of both sides are going to spill a lot of blood before anything happens.

lunaliar said...

Now, I disagree when you say that the Palestinians have suffered occupation, only because that implies that Israel is solely occupied Palestinian territory and isn't sovereign of Israel. If the Hamas-led government recognized Israel's sovereingnty and a queue of amnesty (much like the Taliban and other insurgents are being offered) is made, then there is hope for peace. As long as some think or believe that Israelis are mere occupants of land that is not sovereign to them, but instead belongs to Palestinians... well, we'll get nowhere.

MattJ said...

Ah wait! I am not talking about the land that Israel occupies as a country, of course that isn't an occupation. I am talking about the Annexed land that the UN told them to give back about 50 years ago - places like the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

The thing is, on Tuesday Hamas agreed implicitly in a document that they would recognise Israel and backa two state solution.

So in that context movement was made, President Buish all but poo-pooed the document and clearly the ISraeli governement don't want peace nearly as much as they purport to. The fact is there is still absolutely NO evidence to suggest that there is any Palestinian authority involvment in the kidnapping of the soldier. So complete is the media demonisation of Palestine that no one is even bnothering to ask the question.

So just to clarify, what's done is done. The way ISrael was formed is n oit the fault of the people that live there and they don't deserve to be disposessed of rights and home anymore than the original occupants did. When I talk of occupied territory I am tlaking about the annexed land that Israel have been allowed to illegally occupy since 1967. Places like the West Bank and the Gaza strip, where Palestinians are pretty much without rights in the eyes of the Israeli authority.

Olivia said...

Honestly, the number of battles fought across borders worldwide, thanks to the ineptness of the British colonialist-types drawing lines across land, like it was theirs to bestow.

Wonder why we can't start at the drawing board, now that we know better?

And its comforting to see that I'm not the only person who isn't totally against israel, because I haven't forgotten that they once lived there too and are not mere invaders or occupiers - all they did was go back from whence they came.

As my eyes are tryint to shut as I write this, what if i come back tomorrow and find i have made now sense whatsoever.?

What;s more you got a lot out of me as I usually refuse to discuss politics.

MattJ said...

I'm not totally against Israel either I just find it galling that they are pretty much allowed to do as they please without any International repercussions. I completely agree about the abritrary drawing of borders that we engaged in, that's what I meant with my comment about the creation of Israel being a major cause of current strife, it was just carved up and the borders redrawn without so much as By Your Leave.

Like I have said, what is done is done and it's the Israeli Government I have an issue with not the existence of the country. Once again, as arbitrary as the border is they should have to observe them as much as everyone else. The simple fact is that they should have pulled out of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank 40 yars ago but they see Jerusalem as theirs, despite East Jerusalem still legally belonging to Palestine. I find it so difficult to comprehend a people that have suffered so much for so long can inflict such a depth of suffering on another people.

lunaliar said...

I did a little checking and Matt is right to an extent that the Hamas-led government didn't abduct or kill Israelis, but members of the Hamas party did. Mind you, people, that Hamas is no longer just a terrorist-sponsoring political organization, it's a bona fide party in the Palestinian government, even so much as a RULING PARTY. So, when the party espouses a resentment towards Israel, it just so happens that members of that party might act on it. I understand that there was a compromise underway, and I understand that Israel went WAY overboard in their actions, but what should we expect of hawks?

The NYT editorial board is saying that by members of the Hamas party abducting and killing Israelis is an attack on Israel, and that Hamas effectively picked the fight.

But what we're not talking about is the fact that this invasion was the reprecussion of the last straw that has broken the camel's back. Ever since the Gaza pullout, Palestinians have been firing rockets across the borders into Israeli towns. There's only so many missiles that a heavily militarized country can take before they go apeshit.

It's kind of like a twisted parody of America. We were attacked with our own planes, thousands were killed, we reigned down a heavy hand on our (for arguments sake) "enemies" in an emotionally charged attack.

I'm still not excusing Israel, their post 1967 borders or the impatience and incertitude of their government, but I am saying (with a drop of Texas twang) that if you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

/* -----------GOOGLE ANALYTICS TRACKING CODE-------------- */ /*------------------END TRACKING CODE-------------------- */